Gurudev Sri Sri Ravi Shankar in conversation with Theo Von, the American comedian and host of “This Past Weekend,” on fear, shame, artificial intelligence, and why forgiving yourself is harder than forgiving anyone else.
On Fear and Concern
Von: I get scared a lot. Do you ever get scared?
Gurudev: Not so far.
Von: I just have a lot of fears sometimes.
Gurudev: Fear is nothing but love standing upside down.
Von: Explain that to me.
Gurudev: Fear is a sensation you get in your chest region, or in your belly. What are you afraid of? You are afraid you will lose what you have, or you may not get what you want. It is there because you love something — and love, seen from the other side, appears as fear.
Von: I fear that as a society we’re losing what it means to be human — that we’re so involved with technology we forget the value of being human.
Gurudev: I make a little distinction between concern and fear. I am also concerned about how mankind is going to use this technology — whether for the benefit of people, or for selfish gain. Concern must be there. If you don’t have any concern, you will have no passion. And that concern is a great motivator. It makes you act.
“Concern must be there. If you don’t have any concern, you will have no passion.”
On Guilt and Self-Forgiveness
Von: I deal with a lot of shame. A memory comes up of something I’m ashamed of, and it’s almost like getting struck by lightning.
Gurudev: When you did that wrong thing, you were not the same person that you are now. You were ignorant. You had no wisdom, no control over your emotions. But now you are different. There are two aspects in us: one that changes all the time, and one that doesn’t change at all. The one that doesn’t change is all good.
Von: Self-forgiveness is tough for me.
Gurudev: A little bit of guilt is okay. That keeps you moving, but not too much. How much guilt should you have? Just as much as salt, or Tabasco. Just a flavor.
Von: A flavor, but not a meal.
Gurudev: Not a meal. When guilt bothers you, wake up and see that the whole past is like a dream. Pleasant things happened, unpleasant things happened — none of them exist now. Regret causes a lot of toxins in our own body, and it blurs our vision. Your consciousness is a mirror, not a photograph.
“How much guilt should you have? Just as much as salt, or Tabasco. Just a flavor.”
On Why Buddha Refused to Forgive
Gurudev: There is a beautiful story about Lord Buddha on this. Have you heard it?
Von: No. Will you tell me?
Gurudev: Buddha was teaching meditation to ten thousand people. An elderly man came, angry that his sons were meditating instead of helping him in the business. He stood in front of Buddha, said, “You spoiled my sons’ lives and my life,” and spat on Buddha’s face. Buddha didn’t react. He was just smiling. That night the very vibration of Buddha brought something in the man. The next day he comes and says, “I’m so sorry, will you please forgive me?” And Buddha said, “No, I can’t forgive you.”
Gurudev: Everyone was shocked — Buddha’s principle is to forgive. And Lord Buddha said, “You are not the same person who was here yesterday, and I was not the same person who was there yesterday. So if I ever meet the person who spat on me, I will tell that person to forgive that person.” Everything is changing. It’s not enough to forgive others. We have to forgive ourselves also.
On Anger as a Distortion of Love
Von: How can we love ourselves better?
Gurudev: Love is not an act. All actions are an expression of love, but they are not love. Love is what you are — it’s your nature. Your body is made of amino acids, proteins and carbohydrates. Your consciousness is made of love.
Von: So it isn’t in us. It’s what we are.
Gurudev: Listen — all the negative emotions are just a distortion of love. What is greed? You love objects more than people — your love is in the wrong place. Narcissism is loving yourself more than others. Jealousy is wanting everything for yourself. And anger is nothing but love with a knife. Love for perfection brings anger for imperfection.
Von: I’ve struggled with that. It makes me feel like I could have done better.
Gurudev: You are punishing yourself too much. Every time you get angry for someone else’s mistake or your own, you take a toll on your own mind and your own body.
“Anger is nothing but love with a knife. Love for perfection brings anger for imperfection.”
On Artificial Intelligence and Original Thinking
Von: When you look at where we’re headed with technology, what is a positive way you see it affecting us?
Gurudev: When I was going to college, it would take a whole day in the library to find the index and the book. Today, at your fingertips, you can get any knowledge from anywhere. Second, artificial intelligence. Many are very skeptical, or even scared, as though it will take away jobs. But artificial intelligence is a boon also. It’s not just a curse.
Von: So it’s a positive as well?
Gurudev: A positive thing. It can only put out what has already been discovered. So it challenges our intellect to be more original.
Von: So if everybody has the same knowledge, creativity has to go to another level.
Gurudev: Another level, yes. It is a challenge for an individual to be more creative, more original — because everybody has the same information now.
On Love, Space and Relationships
Von: What is one of the keys to success in a relationship?
Gurudev: First, when both of them have a common goal, and are not focused on each other too much. Two lines focused on each other will meet, and then go apart. But if they have a common goal, they go parallel, for infinity. Attraction is time-bound — you are hungry, you eat, and that’s done. A common ambition lasts. Second, stop policing each other. Give space for others to be what they are. Stand by a plant with a magnifying glass and you are only wasting your time. It grows in its own time.
Von: Sometimes I put the responsibility on someone else to love me, instead of making sure that I love me.
Gurudev: When you want to love somebody, take it for granted that they love you. Their expression of love may be different, but never question someone’s love for you. In that sense your love for them grows — and it makes the other person comfortable. Expression of love can never be complete, because love is infinite.
“Expression of love can never be complete, because love is infinite.”
